Should interference from another rider or other source be a false start?

This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.

Comments about this discussion:

Started 21 Jun 04:24

We had already started to discuss this topic during the last rulebook update, but in the end we put it aside due to lack of time and wanted to finish it next time. So I will try to recap the discussion from last time.

The discussion started from the fact that the first sentence in 2B.7.3 "A false start occurs if a rider's wheel moves forward before the start signal, or if one or more riders are forced to dismount due to interference from another rider or other source." is not entirely clear in several aspects.
1. What is meant by "interference from another rider or other source"? And to whom exactly is the false start attributed and who is warned?
2. Should it be better to distinguish between an aborted start and a false start in order to separate the causes and consequences more clearly?

Regarding point 2. we had mentioned three aspects in the discussion which could lead to a warning (and possibly disqualification) in case of a false start:
(a) A rider’s wheel moves forward before the start signal (this would technically be the false start).
(b) A rider dismounts before the start signal.
(c) A rider disturbs other riders in the race through sound, movement or otherwise.

We had also noted that often the exact time when something occurs is of importance. It could therefore be useful to define more precisely when the start process begins.

In the end, we had a very rough draft of the rules, which looked like the following, but would be revised until the next rulebook update, where it would be included again. So I quote this from the last Rulebook Committee:

OLD RULE

2B.6.8 False Starts

A false start occurs if a rider’s wheel moves forward before the start signal, or if one or more riders are forced to dismount due to interference from another rider or other source.

NEW RULE

2B.6.8 False start, and aborting of starts

The starter can abort the start procedure for the following reasons:
(a) A false start. This is when the wheel of a rider moves forward during the start count, before the final buup or BANG.
(b) A rider dismounts during the start count, before the final buup or BANG.
(c) A rider intentionally disturbs other riders in the heat through sound, movement or otherwise.
(d) A rider unintentionally disturbs other riders in the heat through sound, movement or otherwise.
(e) Unforeseen circumstances.

(a): the rider in question gets a warning if this is the first aborted start because of (a) for the particular heat. Whoever does (a) in a subsequent start of the same heat, is disqualified for that event.
(b): the rider in question gets a warning if this is the first aborted start because of (b) for the particular heat. Whoever does (b) in a subsequent start of the same heat, is disqualified for that event.
(c): the rider in question gets a warning if this is the first aborted start because of (c) for the particular heat. Whoever does (c) in a subsequent start of the same heat, is disqualified for that event.
(d) or (e): the heat is restarted without issuing a warning or disqualification.

The reason I penalise (a), (b) and (c) separately, is that I don't find it acceptable that if one rider at the start would dismount during the start count (intentionally or not), no one can make a false start thereafter without being DQ. But this makes it very complicated, probably too much too handle for the starter as well as for the riders.

Then I realised that the above is only for the option "one false start per heat". So it would become even more complicated to include rules for "one false start per rider". Let alone to execute such rules - that's a lot of counters to keep track of.

Comment 21 Jun 07:06

I have taken the current rules, as well as the idea from the last time and the rules of athletics and have worked out the following proposal.
The proposal takes up that between a false start and another reason for the start abort should be distinguished and gives to the starter at the same time the possibility to warn riders or to disqualify in case of repeated infringements, if they can be made responsible for a start abort according to his opinion.
At the same time the rule gives the starter the possibility to abort the start without consequences for one of the riders, e.g. because the abort is caused by external influences.

Let's discuss about the proposal - everything new is italic:

2B.7.1 The Start

3.2 As an alternative, the Starter will give a three-count start before firing a starting gun on the fourth count. Example: “One, two, three, BANG!” The time between each of these elements should be the same, and approximately 3/4 seconds. This allows riders to predict the timing of the gun, for a fair start.

4. If the Starter is not satisfied that all is ready for the start to proceed after he gave the command “Ready” and the riders are on their starting position or they otherwise abort the start, the command should be "Go Back". If an start-beep apparatus is used and the start sequence is already started the start should be aborted by blowing a whistle or other clear and predefined signal.
Where a rider in the judgement of the Starter, after the command “Ready”,

4.1 causes the start to be aborted, for instance by raising a hand and/or dismounting, without a valid reason, (such reason to be evaluated by the Starter); or

4.2 does not place themselves in their final starting position at once and without delay; or

4.3 disturbs other riders in the race through sound, movement or otherwise,

the Starter shall abort the start.
The Starter may warn the rider for improper conduct (disqualify in case of repeated infringement of the Rule). However, when an extraneous reason was considered to be the cause for aborting the start, or the Referee does not agree with the Starter’s decision, no rider gets warned or disqualified.

2B.7.1.1 False Start

1. A false start occurs if a rider's wheel moves forward before the start signal.

2. In case of a false start, the Starter will abort the start, for example by blowing a whistle or other clear and predefined signal.

3. There are two options on how to deal with false starts:

3.1 One False Start Allowed Per Heat: After the first false start of a particular heat, all riders may start again. Thereafter, any rider(s) causing a false start are disqualied for this event. This option should not be used without an electronic false start monitoring system.

3.2 One False Start Allowed Per Rider: After the first false start of a particular rider in a heat, the rider in question receives a warning and may start again. Any rider(s) causing their personal second false start are disqualied.

4. Only the earliest false starting rider gets assigned this false start and the associated warning or disqualication.

Comment 21 Jun 07:09

Here again, because I can not edit the post and the italic was not taken:

2B.7.1 The Start

1. Unless noted otherwise, riders start mounted, holding onto a starting post or other support, with the fronts of their tires (forward most part of wheel) behind the edge of the starting line that is farthest from the Finish line. Riders may start from behind the starting line if they wish, provided all other starting rules are followed. Riders may place starting posts in the location most comfortable for them, as long as it doesn't interfere with other riders.
2. Rolling starts are not permitted in any race. Riders may lean before the start, but their wheels may not move forward during the start beeps or counting down. Rolling back is allowed.
3. After the command "Ready", all riders shall move to their starting position. As soon as the Starter is satisfied that all riders are steady in the correct starting position, he gives the command "Attention" and starts the race. This can be done by a start sequence as follows:
    3.1 Usually, a start-beep apparatus is used. This provides a six-count start: “beep - beep -beep - beep - beep - buup!” The timing between (the start of) successive beeps is one second. The first five beeps have all the same sound frequency. The final tone (buup) has a higher frequency, so that the competitors can easily distinguish this tone from the rest. The proper moment to start is the beginning of the final tone.
    3.2 As an alternative, the Starter will give a three-count start before firing a starting gun on the fourth count. Example: “One, two, three, BANG!” The time between each of these elements should be the same, and approximately 3/4 seconds. This allows riders to predict the timing of the gun, for a fair start.
4. If the Starter is not satisfied that all is ready for the start to proceed after he gave the command “Ready” and the riders are on their starting position or they otherwise abort the start, the command should be "Go Back". If an start-beep apparatus is used and the start sequence is already started the start should be aborted by blowing a whistle or other clear and predefined signal.
Where a rider in the judgement of the Starter, after the command “Ready”,
    4.1 causes the start to be aborted, for instance by raising a hand and/or dismounting, without a valid reason, (such reason to be evaluated by the Starter); or
    4.2 does not place themselves in their final starting position at once and without delay; or
    4.3 disturbs other riders in the race through sound, movement or otherwise,
the Starter shall abort the start.
The Starter may warn the rider for improper conduct (disqualify in case of repeated infringement of the Rule). However, when an extraneous reason was considered to be the cause for aborting the start, or the Referee does not agree with the Starter’s decision, no rider gets warned or disqualified.

2B.7.1.1 False Start

1. A false start occurs if a rider's wheel moves forward before the start signal.
2. In case of a false start, the Starter will abort the start, for example by blowing a whistle or other clear and predefined signal.
3. There are two options on how to deal with false starts:
3.1 One False Start Allowed Per Heat: After the first false start of a particular heat, all riders may start again. Thereafter, any rider(s) causing a false start are disqualied for this event. This option should not be used without an electronic false start monitoring system.
3.2 One False Start Allowed Per Rider: After the first false start of a particular rider in a heat, the rider in question receives a warning and may start again. Any rider(s) causing their personal second false start are disqualied.
4. Only the earliest false starting rider gets assigned this false start and the associated warning or disqualication.

Comment 22 Jun 09:04

Looks good to me, you nicely solved the issue we had last time. Indeed, your earlier thoughts (first comment in this discussion) would lead to overly complicated rules.

A few small typos:
in 4.1 delete the comma before " (such reason to be...."
in 3.1 under False Start, change disqualied to disqualified.
last word of 3.2 under False Start should (also) read "disqualified".
The very last word should read "disqualification".

Comment 22 Jun 10:40

Thank you for reading so carefully :)
What do the other committee members think?

Comment 30 Jun 23:10

I'm going to work my way down, starting with something new:

3.2: the 3/4 of a second spacing in the 3-count start predates the electronic start-beep method (which is better). The issue in the pre start-beep days was uneven counting by the starter; usually a too-short gap between three, and BANG. Anyway, in a world where many/most riders are now used to the 1-second counting of the start-beep, we should use the same timing for a 3-count, manually started race. Hopefully this is a no-brainer for most people in this group (whoever the rest of them may be)...

4.: Second sentence should start "If a start-beep..." (typo)

Under False Start 3.1: I would start that sentence with the requirement of an electronic false start monitoring system. Anything but an instant notice of false start gets messy on the track. That lack of flexibility should only be used with the instant notice of the first false start. Suggested wording: One False Start Allowed Per Heat: This option can only be used with an electronic false start monitoring system. After the first false start of a particular heat, all riders may start again. Thereafter, any rider(s) causing a false start are disqualified for this event.

I suggest adding a #5 at the end, to recommend using one or the other of those methods as much as possible, rather than mixing them. Suggested wording: 5. It is recommended to use one or the other of those two start methods for all races, if possible, to be consistent so riders will know what to expect in future heats.

Great job on putting this all together in an organized fashion!

Comment 01 Jul 04:46

About 3.2: I agree, that sounds logical

About False Start 3.1: I would agree to that

I completely agree with you that within a competition only one of the two options should be used if possible. In Germany, however, we often use option 3.2 for the younger age groups (U11) and option 3.2 for all other age groups. I would definitely keep this open for the hosts. But that would be given with a recommendation - so I think the recommendation is good :) However, I would integrate it somehow into paragraph 3, since it is about the false start options.

Comment 01 Jul 09:07

Can you clarify "In Germany, however, we often use option 3.2 for the younger age groups (U11) and option 3.2 for all other age groups."?

Why is there a requirement to use an electronic false start monitoring system in order to use "One False Start Per Heat". I would agree that an electronic false start monitoring system is preferred over a manual/visual check. But even with the latter, it is quite doable to use one false start per heat.

Comment 01 Jul 10:51

I just realized that it is not clear which rule my statement referred to at all - I mean 3.1 and 3.2 of 2B.7.1.1 False Start, since I assumed that John also refers to the false start rule ("I'm going to work my way down").
In the case of false starts, it is more pleasant, especially for inexperienced young riders, if each rider can make a false start personally, in order to prevent the children from becoming unnecessarily nervous and resulting in many disqualifications. For the older, more experienced riders, on the other hand, the rule of allowing only one false start per heat often makes sense simply for reasons of saving time.

Currently it is indeed only a recommendation not to use rule 2B.7.1.1 3.1 without an electronic false start monitoring system.
I am generally not a fan of checking false starts only manually/visually (at least from a certain level of competitions), because beyond a certain time (200 - 100 ms) it is simply not possible to recognize if someone starts too early. So the task is definitely very challenging for the judges and then applying the tougher of the two false start rules will create additional pressure for the judges and perhaps lead to discussions with the riders. But I can also live with the recommendation if we stick to it.

Comment 01 Jul 12:59

I was only asking because you wrote "option 3.2" twice. Anyways, I now understand.

Is it a recommendation (as opposed to a requirement) because of the word "should". To me (as a non-native English speaker) this is not as explicit as "It is recommended that". I can live with both a recommendation and a requirement. In the Dutch nationals we do not (yet) have an electronic false start monitoring system, but then again, we don't use the full set of IUF rules anyway. (If only because of the m/f mixed 0-10 age group.)

Comment 03 Jul 10:26

I have revised the proposals according to the feedback and I hope I covered everything mentioned in the discussion. (I corrected some (hopefully all) spelling mistakes; I changed for 2B.7.1 3.2 that the time between the start of the elements should be about 1 second; I made for 2B.7.1.1 3.1 the strong recommendation to use this option only with an electronic false start monitoring system – maybe that is a suitable compromise between requirement and recommendation?)

At the weekend I talked again in detail with my brother, who was a starter at various competitions in the last years, among others at the Unicon in France, about the new rule. Thereby two aspects came up:

1. As language for the comands should be allowed beside English for the Unicon and international competitions also the local language for other competitions.

2. Now that a start can be aborted without a warning/disqualification of a rider, the riders must somehow be suitably informed whether there has been a warning/disqualification or not.

3. Regarding John's comment that only one start method should be used, I thought about whether it would make more sense to require that the method used is announced in advance. This would theoretically give the hosts the possibility to use different false start rules in different age groups, for example - but it would have to be announced in advance. Indirectly, this will also prevent a lot of switching between the variants. What do you think?

I have tried to consider both aspects in the revision of the rule. However, for 1. in particular, I don't know where there is a reasonable place for it.

2B.7.1 The Start

1. Unless noted otherwise, riders start mounted, holding onto a starting post or other support, with the fronts of their tires (forward most part of wheel) behind the edge of the starting line that is farthest from the Finish line. Riders may start from behind the starting line if they wish, provided all other starting rules are followed. Riders may place starting posts in the location most comfortable for them, as long as it doesn't interfere with other riders.
2. Rolling starts are not permitted in any race. Riders may lean before the start, but their wheels may not move forward during the start beeps or counting down. Rolling back is allowed.
3. All commands of the starter are to be given in English on the Unicon or international competitions, on other competitions the local language can be used as well.
4. After the command "Ready", all riders shall move to their starting position. As soon as the Starter is satisfied that all riders are steady in the correct starting position, he gives the command "Attention" and starts the race. This can be done by a start sequence as follows:
    4.1 Usually, a start-beep apparatus is used. This provides a six-count start: “beep - beep -beep - beep - beep - buup!” The timing between (the start of) successive beeps is one second. The first five beeps have all the same sound frequency. The final tone (buup) has a higher frequency, so that the competitors can easily distinguish this tone from the rest. The proper moment to start is the beginning of the final tone.
    4.2 As an alternative, the Starter will give a three-count start before firing a starting gun on the fourth count. Example: “One, two, three, BANG!” The time between (the start of) each of these elements should be the same, and approximately 1 second. This allows riders to predict the timing of the gun, for a fair start.
Which option is used must be announced in advance of the event. (Alternative: It is recommended to use one or the other of those two options for all races of an event.)
5. If the Starter is not satisfied that all is ready for the start to proceed after he gave the command “Ready” and the riders are on their starting position or they otherwise abort the start, the command should be "Go Back". If a start-beep apparatus is used and the start sequence is already started the start should be aborted by blowing a whistle or other clear and predefined signal.
Where a rider in the judgement of the Starter, after the command “Ready”,
    4.1 causes the start to be aborted, for instance by raising a hand and/or dismounting, without a valid reason (such reason to be evaluated by the Starter); or
    4.2 does not place themselves in their final starting position at once and without delay; or
    4.3 disturbs other riders in the race through sound, movement or otherwise,
the Starter shall abort the start.
The Starter may warn the rider for improper conduct (disqualify in case of repeated infringement of the Rule). However, when an extraneous reason was considered to be the cause for aborting the start, or the Referee does not agree with the Starter’s decision, no rider gets warned or disqualified. This decision shall be clearly indicated to the riders.

2B.7.1.1 False Start

1. A false start occurs if a rider's wheel moves forward before the start signal.
2. In case of a false start, the Starter will abort the start, for example by blowing a whistle or other clear and predefined signal.
3. There are two options on how to deal with false starts:
3.1 One False Start Allowed Per Heat: The use of this option is strongly recommended only with an electronic false start monitoring system. After the first false start of a particular heat, all riders may start again. Thereafter, any rider(s) causing a false start are disqualified for this event.
3.2 One False Start Allowed Per Rider: After the first false start of a particular rider in a heat, the rider in question receives a warning and may start again. Any rider(s) causing their personal second false start are disqualified.
Which option is used must be announced in advance of the event. (Alternative: It is recommended to use one or the other of those two options for all races of an event.)
4. Only the earliest false starting rider gets assigned this false start and the associated warning or disqualification. A warning or disqualification shall be clearly indicated to the riders in question.

Comment 03 Jul 15:40

The sentence "The use of this option is strongly recommended only with an electronic false start monitoring system." sounds a bit strange to be.
To me it seems better:
"The use of this option is strongly discouraged when no electronic false start monitoring system is used."
Maybe a native speaker can comment on this.

Under 3.2 I like the alternative slightly better.

In the very last sentence, "riders" can be singular ("rider").

Comment 03 Jul 23:24

Good! Reading now to look for any suggested edits:

2B.7.1, #3: "at Unicon" is better than "on Unicon". I prefer "...in English at Unicon or other international competitions..." - This is based on there being only the one Unicon every two years. The rest of #3 implies that English must be used "at other competitions" which does not sound right; if for example it is the German National Championships, etc.

4.2: "and approximately 1 second", to me, should say "at approximately 1 second"

4.2 comment: The important thing for manual starting is a consistent interval between the counts. In my experience, many starters couldn't seem to grasp that they were shooting the gun too early; causing riders to try to anticipate an uneven count. Many starters would tell me they did this for Athletics; not to tell them how to do it, etc. This is why we specified how the count works, because in regular Athletics, the gun is supposed to be a surprise. I don't know what is a clear an efficient way to reinforce this. If nobody has noticed this being a problem in recent years, our current wording is probably fine, and I may be wasting your time to read this. :-(

2B.7.1.1, 3.1: I agree with Klaas' wording for this; it's a little more direct.

2B.7.1.1, 3.2: I recommend the alternative version, but it must allow flexibility for organizers, because circumstances may require changing the method. Suggested text for that second paragraph: "It is recommended to use one or the other of those two options for all races if possible. The option to be used must be announced in advance of the event.

I don't know if we need to add additional wording to that to indicate that officials can switch methods if conditions demand it, such as if not enough electronic equipment to use for all races, breakdown, etc.

In the very last sentence, I think "riders" is fine, or "rider(s)" because sometimes false starts can be messy and involve more than one rider.

Comment 04 Jul 01:33

Vielen Dank für eure Rückmeldungen.

2B.7.1, 3.: I agree, "at Unicon" sounds better. Regarding the comment that the rest of 3. sounds as if English must be used on other competitions as well - how would the part "[...], at other competitions the local language can be used as well." be worded to avoid this impression? Any suggestions? Of course, the intention of this paragraph was to allow the use of the local language at other competitions.

2B.7.1, 4.2: You are the native speaker - for me "The time between (the start of) each of these elements should be the same, and approximately 1 second." sounds more logical than "The time between (the start of) each of these elements should be the same, at approximately 1 second." But I'm happy to take over the wording of someone who has English as a native language :)
In Germany there have been competitions with the electronic start signal exclusively for many years now, so I can't say anything about whether this part of the rule and the wording leads to problems in practice.

2B.7.1.1, 3.1: I agree, Klaas' wording sounds better to me than my suggestion.

2B.7.1, 4. and 2B.7.1.1, 3.: I completely agree that the organizer should retain a certain flexibility here. That's why I think we should formulate the whole thing only as a recommendation - that implies that deviations from this are possible. At the same time, I think it is important that the riders are informed in advance of the event which variant will be used. In principle, this applies to all rules where there are several options (e.g. the start variant in the 800 m race). A corresponding rule could therefore also be placed in the section for organizers! If we should leave it here, I think Johns' suggestion is very good.

2B.7.1.1, 4.: While reading Klaas' comment, I realized that the first sentence of this section actually only applies to option 3.2 "One False Start Allowed Per Rider", because with the other option, not only the rider in question is warned after the first false start, but all of them. I would therefore suggest to reformulate the rule a bit.
I deleted "[...] for this event" in 3.1 because I think, event is not clearly defined in the rulebook and therfore it's better not to name it anyway to avoid possible confusion.

2B.7.1.1 False Start

1. A false start occurs if a rider's wheel moves forward before the start signal.
2. In case of a false start, the Starter will abort the start, for example by blowing a whistle or other clear and predefined signal. Any warning or disqualification resulting from this must be clearly indicated to the riders in question.
3. There are two options on how to deal with false starts:
3.1 One False Start Allowed Per Heat: The use of this option is strongly discouraged when no electronic false start monitoring system is used. After the first false start of a particular heat, all riders receive a warning and may start again. Thereafter, any rider(s) causing a false start are disqualified for this event.
3.2 One False Start Allowed Per Rider: After the first false start of a particular rider in a heat, the rider in question receives a warning and may start again. Any rider(s) causing their personal second false start are disqualified.
It is recommended to use one or the other of those two options for all races if possible. The option to be used must be announced in advance of the event.
4. Only the earliest false starting rider gets assigned this false start and the associated disqualification if they have already been warned.

Comment 04 Jul 05:34

2B.7.1, 3.: You're asking for a suggestion to avoid the understanding that English has to be used, regardless of whether also another (local) language is used. I suggest to delete "as well". Also, in stead of "can", "may" is better. And to avoid all possible confusion, "in stead" could be added. All in all, I would suggest
"All commands of the starter are to be given in English at Unicon or international competitions. At other competitions, the local language may be used in stead."

2B.7.1, 4.2: I can see how you feel "and" is right. But I think that in that case, the verbs should be repeated, as in
"The time between (the start of) each of these elements should be the same, and should be approximately 1 second"
For me, it's either this, or John's wording with "at".

Yes, we should add something about announcing the False Start rule being used to the Organisers section.

Rather than deleting "for this event", which by the way still appears under 3.2, I think we should define event, but also competition, discipline etc somewhere in the Rulebook

In the entire proposed text of yesterday, the subnumbers under 5. are 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3; they should be 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3.

Finally, responding to John's comment regarding an even count: in Athletics, there is no count at all. It's "Ready?!".......BANG! So the reaction time to the BANG is part of the race time; I have heard that too fast reactions (less than 150 ms or so) are considered a false start.
In unicycling we deviate from that approach. Our riders may start at exactly 0:00,000. To enable that, a proper even count or a regular beep sequence is necessary; there is no place for a surprise start.

Comment 05 Jul 00:50

2B.7.1, 3: How about this for the closing sentence: "All commands of the starter are to be given in English at Unicon or international competitions. At other competitions, English is optional." - Hopefully that is to the point and not ambiguous.

2B.7.1, 4.2: Slight edit to Klaas' version above: "The time between (the start of) each of these elements must be the same, and should be approximately 1 second" - Note the change to "must".

Yes to adding the planned False Start method to the Organizer's section. Hopefully that would come from this committee as well?

Regarding definitions for "event", Competition, Discipline and other words that may need them, we should have definitions, then check the rest of the Rulebook to see if adjustments need to be made to how they are used throughout. How to define? We'll have to concur on what each one means. They are interchangeable if they don't have anchoring definitions. Here's what I think of those three words:
- Event: I believe I've used it to refer to a single competition event; for example, the 100m Race. This "event" or "race" is composed of many heats, and finals, but all pertain to racing 100m.
- Competition: This one is tougher. I believe it should refer to something larger than a single event. When we refer to "a competition" it could be in the larger sense, such as Unicon 20, or in to a subset of a big convention, such as the Street Comp. This still leaves some gray area, which is why we should examine the overall Rulebook to see how these terms are being used.
- Discipline: I'm not sure. I would have to run a search on the existing Rulebook and go from there. :-o

In Klaas' last paragraph he adds supportive text so the reader can understand why we do a 3-count for manual starts. Here is a recommendation for how to add some of that:
4.2 As an alternative, the Starter will give a three-count start before firing a starting gun on the fourth count. Example: “One, two, three, BANG!” The time between (the start of) each of these elements must be the same, and should be approximately 1 second. This allows riders to start leaning ahead of the gun, for an exact and predictable start.

What do you think?

Comment 05 Jul 02:17

Thanks for the feedback and numerous improvements - I have updated the proposal again and hopefully everything is taken into account. A few small things remain:

1. If we add something in the section for organizers (Probably under 2D.3 Communication? - but I would oben a new discussion for that) regarding the false start method - do we leave the sentence out of here completely? Otherwise it would actually be duplicated in the rules.

2. I'm pretty sure we don't have a reference like "for this event" in every place in the rules where it is mentioned that someone can/must be disqualified. I can live with leaving "for this event" here in the proposal for now - but I would then start another discussion to make it consistent for the whole section 2. In general, I think that it is not necessary to explicitly mention that a disqualification only applies to the event/race in which the rule violation was done - but as I said, I think that's another discussion. Would that be a solution that works for you all?

3. The issue of definitions of event, maybe race, competition, discipline etc. would be a topic for the Main Committee, wouldn't it? But we can also start a new discussion here in the subcommittee and collect the definitions there - especially regarding what is meant in the track part and where.

4. The addition of why even spacing is necessary does in fact also apply to the electronic start beep, so I would move the sentence behind 4.2 into the common part for paragraph 4.

2B.7.1 The Start

1. Unless noted otherwise, riders start mounted, holding onto a starting post or other support, with the fronts of their tires (forward most part of wheel) behind the edge of the starting line that is farthest from the Finish line. Riders may start from behind the starting line if they wish, provided all other starting rules are followed. Riders may place starting posts in the location most comfortable for them, as long as it doesn't interfere with other riders.
2. Rolling starts are not permitted in any race. Riders may lean before the start, but their wheels may not move forward during the start beeps or counting down. Rolling back is allowed.
3. All commands of the starter are to be given in English at Unicon or international competitions. At other competitions, English is optional.
4. After the command "Ready", all riders shall move to their starting position. As soon as the Starter is satisfied that all riders are steady in the correct starting position, he gives the command "Attention" and starts the race. This can be done by a start sequence as follows:
    4.1 Usually, a start-beep apparatus is used. This provides a six-count start: “beep - beep -beep - beep - beep - buup!” The timing between (the start of) successive beeps is one second. The first five beeps have all the same sound frequency. The final tone (buup) has a higher frequency, so that the competitors can easily distinguish this tone from the rest. The proper moment to start is the beginning of the final tone.
    4.2 As an alternative, the Starter will give a three-count start before firing a starting gun on the fourth count. Example: “One, two, three, BANG!” The time between (the start of) each of these elements must be the same, and should be approximately 1 second.
Both variants allow the rider to start leaning ahead of the "buup/BANG", for an exact and predictable start.
(It is recommended to use one or the other of those two options for all races if possible. The option to be used must be announced in advance of the event.)
5. If the Starter is not satisfied that all is ready for the start to proceed after he gave the command “Ready” and the riders are on their starting position or they otherwise abort the start, the command should be "Go Back". If a start-beep apparatus is used and the start sequence is already started the start should be aborted by blowing a whistle or other clear and predefined signal.
Where a rider in the judgement of the Starter, after the command “Ready”,
    5.1 causes the start to be aborted, for instance by raising a hand and/or dismounting, without a valid reason (such reason to be evaluated by the Starter); or
    5.2 does not place themselves in their final starting position at once and without delay; or
    5.3 disturbs other riders in the race through sound, movement or otherwise,
the Starter shall abort the start.
The Starter may warn the rider for improper conduct (disqualify in case of repeated infringement of the Rule). However, when an extraneous reason was considered to be the cause for aborting the start, or the Referee does not agree with the Starter’s decision, no rider gets warned or disqualified. This decision shall be clearly indicated to the riders.

2B.7.1.1 False Start

1. A false start occurs if a rider's wheel moves forward before the start signal.
2. In case of a false start, the Starter will abort the start, for example by blowing a whistle or other clear and predefined signal. Any warning or disqualification resulting from this must be clearly indicated to the riders in question.
3. There are two options on how to deal with false starts:
3.1 One False Start Allowed Per Heat: The use of this option is strongly discouraged when no electronic false start monitoring system is used. After the first false start of a particular heat, all riders receive a warning and may start again. Thereafter, any rider(s) causing a false start are disqualified for this event.
3.2 One False Start Allowed Per Rider: After the first false start of a particular rider in a heat, the rider in question receives a warning and may start again. Any rider(s) causing their personal second false start are disqualified for this event.
(It is recommended to use one or the other of those two options for all races if possible. The option to be used must be announced in advance of the event.)
4. Only the earliest false starting rider gets assigned this false start and the associated disqualification if they have already been warned.

Comment 07 Jul 12:42

All looks good to me now, except perhaps for the term "competition". I haven't yet read the new discussion about definitions, I will likely comment there.

Comment 08 Jul 01:48

Regarding the term "competition" I think we should find a consistent way for the whole chapter in the discussion 39 and if we have defined appropriate terms there at the very end of the rulebook update once check all occurrences and if necessary change the term so that it fits the definition.

Since there are no other comments or suggestions for improvement, I would create an official proposal. I'll leave the phrase "It is recommended to use one or the other of those two options for all races if possible. The option to be used must be announced in advance of the event." in the rule for now - if we add something about it later in 2D.3 Communication, we can still delete it in the same proposal here if necessary.

Comment 08 Jul 02:55

While I was writing the proposal two more things came to my mind:

1. Should we include a recommendation for the electronic start device on what frequencies the tones should have?
It can be very confusing for riders if different tones are used at different championships - especially if the tone for the false start has the same frequency, as usually the last one of the six tones. Commecially available (as far as I know) is mainly the ALGE STB1 as a start device. We could give the frequencies of this as a recommendation.

2. In 2B.7.1.1 False Start I am still not really satisfied with paragraph 4. - in the end it still makes a difference for the wording which of the two options in 3. are used. Maybe it would make more sense to integrate the sentence accordingly in 3.1 and 3.2?

3.1 One False Start Allowed Per Heat: The use of this option is strongly discouraged when no electronic false start monitoring system is used. After the first false start of a particular heat, all riders receive a warning and may start again. Thereafter, any rider(s) causing a false start are disqualified for this event. Only the earliest false starting rider gets assigned this false start and the associated disqualification.
3.2 One False Start Allowed Per Rider: After the first false start of a particular rider in a heat, the rider in question receives a warning and may start again. Any rider(s) causing their personal second false start are disqualified for this event. Only the earliest false starting rider gets assigned this false start and the associated warning or disqualification.

What do you think?

Comment 08 Jul 05:12

(1) I don't know if those frequencies have been published. Do you have them? When we made our own start beeps for the Dutch nationals, we measured them from audio and recreated them, but maybe not exactly. I don't have that measurement and calculation anymore. Just now, I measured the frequencies of our start beeps, they are 647 and 800 Hz. (In music terms, the end beep is almost a major third above the other beeps.)

(2) Slight preference to integrate in 3.1 and 3.2. It's clearer.

Just noticed that "Any rider(s) causing their personal second false start are disqualified for this event" seems to imply, because of the word "event", that if someone has two false start during Unicon, he/she is disqualified for the remainder of that Unicon (and maybe even also for races/competitions at this Unicon before this double false start). Or didn't we agree yet that Unicon is an event?

Comment 08 Jul 05:16

Addition:

Why is "(It is recommended to use one or the other of those two options for all races if possible. The option to be used must be announced in advance of the event.)" between brackets?

Secondly, "all races" should be "all races in this event", or it could otherwise mean "all races in this competition". (On the understanding that Unicon is an event, and 100m is a competition.)

Comment 08 Jul 05:59

1. I don't think these frequencies are currently published anywhere - this makes it hard to use consistent frequencies when someone develops a system and i think this could be a reason why the frequencies are sometimes very different.
Back when I was building our start system, I measured the ALGE STB1 (which was the start device that the Swiss Timing Team always used) and the basic frequency of the tones should be 650 Hz for the first five and 970 Hz for the last tone. However, ALGE does not use a sinusoidal signal to drive the loudspeaker, but a square wave, which leads to numerous harmonics. I think, however, that the tones sound sufficiently similar as long as they have the same or at least comparable fundamental frequencies. So I would add as a note that the two frequencies mentioned above are recommended.

3. Regarding the "Any rider(s) causing their personal second false start are disqualified for this event" - the unclear definition of event and competition was the reason why I suggested here in the discussion to leave it out completely. Basically the disqualification is a disqualification for the current race. In the current usage of "event" in the rulebook, "event" would also fit at this point. For me it would be okay to leave "event" for the moment and if the definition is clear to check once in all places if another term has to be used.

4 Regarding the brackets: There was still the question if we should leave it at this point or just add it to 2D.3 Communication - that's why I put it in brackets here in the discussion. Concerning event/competition the bigger one (e.g. the Unicon) is meant, so it would be competition according to the current rulebook wording - for the official proposal I would add it. In my opinion, this can also be standardized later in a common process for all occurrences of event/competition.

Comment 08 Jul 07:53

1. This can't be right. 650 and 970 Hz are about a (musical) fifth apart, which is definitely more than I'm used to. Maybe this was used in ALGE STB1 apparatus, I don't know. But not e.g. in the last Unicon. I have numerous videos from Unicon 2022 track races with startbeeps, and while the 650 Hz is about right, the last beep (buup) is definitely a lot lower than 970 Hz. If you want, I can measure, for one of my Unicon videos, both the first five and the last for frequency.

3. and 4. OK

Comment 09 Jul 03:09

1. You are absolutely right, it is 650 Hz and 795 Hz - I can't figure out right now how the 970 Hz got into the documentation.
However, the question remains whether we want to include a note in the rules regarding this.

For example after 2B.7.1 4.1, something like, "Note: Commonly used electronic starting devices use a frequency of 650 Hz for the first five tones and 795 Hz for the sixth tone."

Comment 09 Jul 10:18

I like that additional Note in the rules. But I would prefer to make these approximate, e.g.
"Note: Commonly used electronic starting devices use a frequency of about 650 Hz for the first five tones and about 795 Hz for the sixth tone."

Comment 10 Jul 00:56

That's completely fine for me as well. I will prepare an official proposal soon.

Comment 10 Jul 04:23

One little remark on my own text: I would replace "a frequency" by "frequencies". A little thing where English is different from my mother tongue :-)

Comment 10 Jul 09:05

I think German and Dutch are very similar in that respect :) But if "frequencies" is the right choice of words in English, I will use that.

Comment 10 Jul 15:31

I did not go through spelling in detail, but I noticed that in one place we have another "fi" dropped, in 2B.7.3. "After the rst false start"

Comment 11 Jul 01:24

I have revised the proposal - but mainly with a view to keeping 2B.7.2 Starting and 2C.1.3 Starter consistent. But I also fixed the spelling error.

Comment 12 Jul 00:36

I think you guys are nuts with the whole frequency thing. I can't see this mattering much to anyone unless they are Deaf or hard of hearing. With a starting gun, most Deaf people can probably detect the gun depending on how much of a shockwave it creates. Or with the cap type, visually, but the rider would then have to look at the gun. This hasn't been an issue yet in my experience though I do know a few Deaf unicyclists. :-)

Comment 12 Jul 01:10

It does indeed matter. Why: In Germany, there is a club that has built its own start beep and uses as the last tone a tone that is in the range of 2 kHz to 3 kHz, i.e. significantly higher than the sixth tone usually used. With this start beep, I have often seen riders at championships mistake the last tone for the signal of a false start. I think it makes sense to give the clubs and possible developers of a start beep a hint which frequencies are usually used. Whether it is 795 Hz or 820 Hz for the last tone, of course, does not matter - but I think an orientation, is very helpful. And that was the intention of this note.

Comment 13 Jul 09:49

I agree with Jan. Consistent auditory start signals across several events/conventions/whateverwordwechoose is comfortable for the riders. And the frequencies mentioned in the note have proven to work well.

Comment 13 Jul 19:45

All I mean is that I probably know a total of two people who know the kHz of various tones. Rather than getting into that, I do believe it's important for riders to understand the starting (and other) systems being used before their actual race starts. Seeing it in action, even if some practice starts are necessary (especially for younger riders) would be the best way to help riders be ready. Maybe we add a sentence that recommends an "educational" component to running racing events so riders understand how the start, finish, RFID tags, etc. work before they are at the starting line.

Comment 14 Jul 00:58

I think the systems should be made in such a way that the riders don't have to worry about how it works and still get along with it. In my opinion, the information about the frequencies is not really intended for the riders - because as you said, hardly anyone will be able to hear which frequency a tone has - but for the clubs and organizers who want to develop an electronic start system, so that they know which frequencies are commonly used and the systems are then as uniform as possible and not completely different at each championship. If the tones always have approximately the same frequency, it doesn't matter to the riders which frequency it is exactly. The decisive factor is that the system is not completely different at every championship.

Regarding your suggestion to integrate an "educational" component, in my opinion this would be (if at all) something for the rules section for the organizers. However, I don't really know how the whole thing should work? To explain the technical background of the technology to the riders will hardly be possible on a championship.
But if you would like to include something in the rules regarding this, we should start a new discussion for it and put the topic in the section 2D.

Comment 15 Jul 11:57

Regarding the technical details, such as tone frequencies in kHz, it would make reading the rules less cumbersome to separate out technical details, long complex definitions, advice for Referees and other such indirect "rule information" from the main text that we hope most riders will read. Many of our different competitive events have a lot of technical information that accompanies the information competitors need to know to compete.

When Section 1, General Rules was added long ago, it was to fill in all the information that wasn't rules for the competitive events, as well as blanket rules that apply across all or many events. In a future edit Section 1 should probably get divided into two, or a new section added for this technical stuff. Or, alternatively, a technical section could be added at the end of the rules for each major section. In the main part of those sections, the technical rule number(s) can be cited, while not bogging down the casual reader with information that only applies to event organizers, officials and nerds.

For example, for Track (and Road and Muni), start methods, equipment, tone frequencies, cone definitions, etc. would be found (or moved to) the technical section. Possibly one technical section for all three Race sections. All of this would be a messy project, but in the end should result in a Rulebook that is much more approachable for all riders. What do you think?

Comment 16 Jul 02:42

Basically, I agree with you that it is very pleasant for the riders to have only those rules summarized in one section that really concern them. In principle, the rulebook already follows this approach with the four sections per chapter, of which A and B are for the riders, C for the judges and D for the organizers. I don't know if technical details can be usefully separated into another cross-discipline chapter, but I agree with you that this would be a bigger project in any case. However, it would be worthwhile to think about which rules and sections would be affected by this and to consider whether it would be possible to set up meaningful rules in a separate chapter. In the end, these rules must also remain readable and understandable for the organizers, etc. Isolated information without context is very difficult to read (even with reference to the corresponding rule in another chapter).

But I assume for the moment everyone agrees that we leave the rule as proposed, right?

Comment 16 Jul 10:38

>But I assume for the moment everyone agrees that we leave the rule as proposed, right?
Do you mean to include the approximate frequencies in the proposal, as per your later amendment? I would say that this info should be somewhere, to facilitate the use of consistent start been tones. But I would agree with John that few people understand what e.g. 650 Hz means in terms of how high a tone is. So maybe it would be better to leave the frequencies in Hz out of the user info, and put this info somewhere in section 2D.

Comment 17 Jul 00:57

>Do you mean to include the approximate frequencies in the proposal, as per your later amendment?

Yes, exactly, I mean to leave the proposal as it currently is - so including the note.

I agree that the note (just like the sentence to announce which start and false start option is used) could certainly be moved to section 2D. But I think that would be a bigger project, because it might involve a lot more aspects, and so from my point of view it makes more sense to integrate the things into section 2B in the short term and then see what exactly and how exactly could be moved to section 2D.

Otherwise, we would now have to consider how to bring these individual aspects into a rule for 2D in a meaningful way. If there are suggestions for this, I am also open to this solution.

Comment 21 Jul 01:00

Any ideas on how we can meaningfully bring the aspects into a rule in the 2D section? Otherwise, I would consider this a future project and leave the proposal as it currently is.

Comment 24 Jul 04:51

Frankly, I don't care so much about moving to 2D or keeping where it is. The whole A/B/C/D structure, introduced a few years ago, is somewhat troublesome in my view because for quite a few subjects it isn't clear where they should go. Some subjects go to more than one section, creating some sort of duplication.

For now, I'm fine with leaving the note about frequencies where you have it now.

Comment 25 Jul 08:50

OK as is now.

Comment 01 Aug 02:36

The review period for the proposal has now been over for quite a while and since there were no further comments or suggestions for improvement, I assume that all committee members are in agreement with the proposal.

I will now open the voting and hope that all voting members of the committee will also participate in the voting.